In this episode, I talk about navigating difficult conversations in our dating lives... When and how do we come clean about challenges (past or present) in our lives?
Some of the topics I explore:
I share stories from listeners and friends, as well as a couple of my own. I also give advice, for what it's worth. :)
In this episode, I talk about navigating difficult conversations in our dating lives... When and how do we come clean about challenges (past or present) in our lives?
Some of the topics I explore:
I share stories from listeners and friends, as well as a couple of my own. I also give advice, for what it's worth. :)
Welcome to Man Shopping With Stacey, where I share my real transparent dating and life experiences for your amusement and inspiration. You're listening to episode 59, deciding to come clean. In this episode, I'm going to talk about navigating difficult conversations in our dating lives. Specifically, how and when should we spill it? When should we come clean about maybe marital infidelity or indiscretions, financial hardships, illnesses? Maybe we have difficult relationships with our kids or exes or we've had a criminal past or had addiction problems. I certainly don't claim to be any sort of dating expert, but I gotta tell you, I sure have talked to a lot of singles and gathered some pretty good advice and stories to share with you on this topic today. I think it's an important one, and I think it's a topic that a lot of us struggle with when we are, uh, confiding in, in people that we are beginning relationship with. So I'm gonna start with, I think one of the most common difficult topics of conversation when dating, especially after divorce, and that is our finances. If you find yourself struggling financially after divorce, you are not alone. I'm going to read just a little bit of a forbes.com article that just came out on October 20th, 2022. The title is The Financial Impact of Divorce. It says the average cost of a wedding in the United States was$28,000 in 2021. According to the, not even with the cost of this initial celebration. A happy, long-lasting marriage can be one of the best ways to build and maintain wealth Costs are shared between two individuals and dual incomes can increase standards of living and allow for greater investment opportunities. Yet almost half of all marriages in the United States end in divorce erasing those cost benefits and often causing deep-rooted stress for all family members, both emotionally and financially. The average cost of a divorce is 15,000 per person and can increase to$100,000 for a more complicated situation, such as a custody dispute. In a study of economic data from 2004 to 2014, women over 50 who divorced faced a 45% drop in their standard of living while a man's standard of living dropped by 21%. Simply put, weigh singles are at a bit of a disadvantage. Our finances are typically one of the very biggest stressors, um, that we face initially after divorce and potentially for years to come as we adjust to a new standard of living, as pointed out by that article as we potentially pay off debt, um, alimony, child support, and just simply dividing property and having to go out and buy things to sustain your household, uh, that you used to share, it's freaking expensive. So Elany and I have been on our own for over three years now, and occasionally, uh, we'll come up with items around the house like something common. I'm talking like a deck of cards, a pair of kitchen scissors or something like, oh, you know, we, we used to have a ping pong table or whatever, and Leni will make a joke and she'll be like, yeah, we lost it in the divorce.<laugh>, like, we can laugh about it because you guys, we left a really big house with a lot of stuff in it and moved kind of under duress into, um, a small apartment and we just simply did not have room to move anything. And, um, I was being followed around the house and harassed as I packed. And so we just, we left hurriedly and without a lot of stuff that I should have been more cautious about, um, taking, you know, my fair share. But I mean, we can laugh about it now, so it's not, it's not horribly damaging, but, but boy was I not laughing about some of the financial, um, things that happened in my pretty simple and pretty cheap divorce after eight years since we didn't share children, um, or anything together. But you guys, I am very, very well aware that, um, financial implications of divorce are huge and again, on our minds a lot and something that we, um, talk about, you know, sometimes pretty openly to get off of our chest sometimes. I was talking to a girlfriend recently and she's like, I'm working four jobs. I'm like, what? She's like, well, I mean, I have a hard time saying no to people. So she has like her main, um, business main job, and then she does a lot of side gigs sometimes just simply out of, um, helping others, right? But she's like, I work my off. I'm cautious, but she's like, I have debt. And so she was telling me about how she was telling this guy, um, or feels as though she should tell the guy that she's dating about her financial situation. And I was like, oh, no, no, no, no, Uhuh<laugh>. And she's like, what? And I'm like, you do not have to tell him your private financial information. You don't owe anybody that, like, that's your, your private life. That that does not need to be discussed on dates. And my advice to her that night, I don't even know that she was asking for it, but what I told her, cuz I couldn't help myself, I was like, you know, in my opinion, again, for what it's worth, I'm like, I think that needs to be reserved for a relationship. Like if you, if if you have gotten far enough in, you know, into a dating relationship where you're discussing, um, moving in together, sharing finances, getting engaged, or you think that, you know, you're, you're getting very serious and things are moving that way, okay, that might be the time to like fess up. So I have this much on credit card. A I owe this much on student loans. I, you know, whatever it is. I think that's the appropriate time. Definitely not during like courtship and dating, in my opinion, should any of that come to light? I have been on first dates where men have spilled financial information to me, um, in a negative light as in, you know, this is the amount of child support that I owe, this is the amount that I have to pay, you know, wife number one for alimony. This is what I owe for wife number two. Oh my God, she took the house. So now you know, this is the debt that I've accumulated. And, uh, yeah, that just, that's not a fun date, first of all. Um, second of all, like I don't need or want to know those things for a couple of different reasons. One, I'm not gonna reciprocate and tell you my financial. I'm just not like, that's private. That's for me, um, for me to know. And you'd find out, right? I'm kidding. But it's just, it's just not necessary. Tell your friends, tell your family if you want to, to get, you know, to get advice or just to be able to breathe and, and decompress and complain or whatever. I totally think that a big element is like when we're bitter and off about finances, which a lot of us are or have been, um, soon after divorce or maybe years later, um, it, it's hard to, it's hard to get over it. And so it, it helps and feels good to about it or to complain about it out loud. I get that, but a date is not the appropriate time to do that. Um, also my sweet, hardworking friend feels guilty over a small amount of debt that would probably, you know, it's not gonna scare anybody off. And I gotta say most of the people that she dates are probably gonna be in a similar boat. Okay. So I just, I feel like part of it is like out of guilt, especially in her situation that she felt like she felt like she'd be, you know, betrayed, um, men if they didn't walk into, uh, dating her with their eyes wide open. But again, I just think it's something that should be reserved for when things start to get serious. This is kind of a different way to look at it too. One of the reasons that I have told a couple of the men that I have dated, like, oh, don't tell me anything about that. I don't want to know, um, alimony figures. I don't wanna know how you lost your and your divorce or, or whatever. Because if I ever meet your ex-wife, I don't want to resent her. And if I were to move forward into, um, you know, living with someone that I've had these discussions with, or God forbid get married one day, I don't wanna compare our household finances to how you used to live with your first wife or your last wife or whatever, or, or just have those figures in my head because I think it could skew a relationship negatively in a lot of different and damaging ways. Um, just for comparison sake, you know, well, geez, I think I could maybe make an entire podcast episode just about the financial stuff. Maybe I will do that down the road. But I'm gonna move on to another really, really difficult subject that, uh, I'm, if you've been dating much after divorce, I'm sure you've had a conversation about infidelity. So, um, I received a really nice message on Instagram recently from a male listener. Um, he is in a relationship with a woman now and things are getting serious and he confided or confessed to her that he had been unfaithful in his marriage. He told me he waited until they dated around four months, and it seemed as though he kind of felt a weight lifted and he felt really good about this decision and telling her, um, because he doesn't carry, you know, the guilt, um, or burden of, of that, you know, anymore. And she was, um, understanding and told him that he did the right thing by waiting a little bit and telling her once, um, she knew him, you know, better. And because then it kind of, you know, her judgements and all of that may have been different of him if she did not know him as well at the beginning. So I think that makes a whole lot of sense. And, you know, to, to round out his story. I think an important point to make too is that his affairs were known by his ex-wife. And so there was also the fear that his girlfriend or the woman he is in a relationship now would find out or hear something, uh, from someone else. And it wouldn't be his story and his perspective and his side of things. And I think that's important too. So, uh, I would say well done. I'm glad that they're navigating all the messiness in life, you know, together, and that, um, she is, his girlfriend is giving him the opportunity to, uh, be honest and vulnerable and she's accepting of him. So I think that's a great start, you know, to their relationship. It sounds like things are going well. I gotta tell you though, I gave opposite advice to a friend of mine who came to me a couple of years ago. He was, um, in a relationship and he said, you know, I love this girl, I'm gonna marry her. And he was faced with the moral dilemma of telling her that he had had a brief affair during his marriage, um, to his ex-wife. And his ex to my knowledge, never knew that he had cheated on her. It was actually, um, purely sexual, uh, an encounter or two. And, uh, the marriage was far gone and it was not, um, the cause, you know, of the divorce. It was basically a, uh, byproduct of a marriage. And I don't condone it by any stretch, but it was inconsequential, um, to his new relationship in my opinion. And I felt as though if he were to tell his girlfriend, uh, you know, after they had been together for a matter of months and were, you know, getting engaged, I'm like, Ooh, like poor timing. Like you've been together for a while. I'm afraid that she will have trust issues, um, with you. So yeah, that's, uh, that's the advice I gave him. I think he took it<laugh>, I think so, uh, anyway, you know, the infidelity thing is, uh, just as common as financial troubles after, after divorce, I think. And I think that my advice on this issue is to keep an open mind. I believe that affairs, for the most part are very horrible. Again, byproducts of unhealthy or unhappy marriages. I don't believe once a cheater always a cheater. No, I don't. And I've been cheated on. Um, I just, I just, uh, don't think that for the most part you can take an individual and say, because they did this in one relationship that they're highly likely to do it again. Maybe that's my negativity coming out. I don't know. Um, but again, I think it's kind of circumstantial as to whether you should share that with someone else or not, because let me tell you, people are real quick to tell<laugh> those of us dating them, that they were cheated on. It's such a common thing. Oh yeah. I mean, she, she was dating her yoga instructor, she was dating the guy from the country club. She was sleeping with her boss, blah, blah, blah. Well, my guess is that's probably not the reason the marriage ended. My guess is, you know, she was sleeping with her boss because you all had a whole bunch of other problems at home. Um, but again, uh, every situation and circumstance is different. I just think that that is privileged and private information too, and should be discussed sparingly. And also like knowing all of the nitty gritty, dirty details of any cheating within a marriage, I think is risky. If you continue to date, um, again, you know, harboring bad feelings about someone's ex is never a good way to start off, uh, you know, being around them or being part of their lives because if they share children together, you know, hopefully you don't harbor a whole bunch of horrible feelings toward them before you even meet them. And I think it's, I think it's risky to share some of those stories, um, in great detail again, or like prematurely or, you know, when it's unnecessary. I think this topic flows really nicely into my next difficult, um, conversation to have when dating. And that is when we have strained and difficult or even toxic relationships with our exes or our own close relationship, like children or parents, those are big red flags for most people dating. Now with in saying that, I think again, we should be reserving judgment, hearing people out, getting to know them in their heart before, you know, completely, you know, dismissing them and never going on a second or third or fourth date with them. But a first date is not the, is not the platform to talk about, you know, how much you hate your ex-wife or your ex-husband or how hellacious your life has been, um, throughout your separation or divorce or, you know, I've, I've met a lot of people who work for or alongside their parents or brother, sister fam close family member. So I have been, I've gotten an earful a lot about really difficult, uh, strained relationships with, um, immediate family members as well. So for me, uh, one of my deal breakers is if the man I am dating has a toxic relationship with their ex, meaning that they do not co-parent together well, that they are in active arguments about, you know, finances, schedules, and the raising of their children, if that's where they're at, I do not want to have anything to do with that situation. Uh, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say, I'm probably not alone in this. Uh, I think there are a lot of us who have, uh, dated a bit that listen for cues and signs and are watching for flags in this area. So my advice to those of you who are in like the throws of a messy separation or divorce, and you are still, uh, actively negotiating, figuring out life as a single person, my advice would be to talk to a therapist, your family members, your close friends about that stuff, but not your date. I mean, in my opinion, if your life is messy and complicated and, you know, in a lot of turmoil, dating should be just for fun at that point. It should just be an escape for fun to meet people, to get yourself out there, maybe a distraction. Um, otherwise, like, take a step back and ask yourself like, why am I pouring my heart out to, uh, someone on a first or second date about my struggles? Because that's, you know, lending itself toward, um, codependency at a not a very healthy beginning to, uh, fresh new relationship, uh, if you're trying to make it a long-lasting one. So there's a couple little pieces of advice there. I was in a conversation recently with a loved one and she was telling me about her first date with her husband who had just passed away. Actually, when we were having the conversation, she said that they met for lunch and she was nervous because she had a feeling she was really gonna like him. And so she was doing what a lot of us do, and there was all this self talk going on in her head before she met him for lunch. And she's like, okay, I'm not gonna talk about my previous previous relationships. I'm not gonna talk about my health concerns because she had some serious ongoing health issues. And she's like, okay, I'm not gonna bring that up, you know, blah, blah, blah. You can guess where this is going. She got to lunch, she spilled her guts, she came clean, if you will, about her, um, the state of her health and her date, who would later become her husband did the same thing. So they both had some significant health concerns. Now, to be fair, my loved one was probably over 60 when they met. Okay, so slightly different, maybe, maybe not for some of us more in our thirties, forties, or fifties, but health concerns, illnesses, when is the right time to talk about that? I mean, some things you just can't hide, right? But other lingering issues, especially if they're, you know, critical or could be terminal, I mean, how do we broach that subject? I mean, we're still deserving of love, we're still deserving of care and support and friendship and a good time, all of that. So I don't know. Her story I felt was very heartwarming because they fell for each other for who one another was. Like the health concerns and issues were a big part of their marriage. Um, and I still think it was a beautiful love story in that I don't think either one of them would've changed a thing. You know, they, they met later in life. They fell head over heels for one another. They accepted one another for who they were when they met, and they very much so remained true to their wedding vows of in sickness and in health for sure. They both had an opportunity to care for one another. And at the end it was, um, my loved one who was more of a caregiver for her husband. Um, but, you know, such as life and could it have gone in the opposite direction? Yeah, there was definitely that potential and both of them were willing to take that risk, if you will. So, you know, it's interesting. I've been on dates where men have told me, you know, things, ailments, things that are wrong with them. Sometimes it's as silly, you know, or slight like bum knee had shoulder surgery, a lot of that kind of stuff. Um, we've been through, especially if, you know, you're an athlete or, or whatever. But then there's like more significant things too, like ongoing things that, you know, I could foresee. Wow, that could, that could be a lot to take on. Um, mental health is one that a lot of us discuss with people that we're dating. And I've met a couple of people that have raised a few concerns with, um, with their own mental health. Uh, just kind of having my eyes wide open to depression and anxiety and how severe is it and what are you taking for it and what kind of therapy are you doing and what else, you know, what, what, what does your support system look like? Because that, that's something, um, seriously to consider. You know, when getting to know other people, I would throw addiction into this category too. Um, after I've had, you know, a, a good amount of exposure and life, you know, sharing life with, with someone who struggles with an addiction, uh, I, I would hope that that would be exposed. Um, in my case, it was a big fat secret, uh, and not discussed that actually concealed. So I may tend to be a little hypervigilant in this arena, but all this affects all of us. We all have bodies, we all have minds, we all have souls. And, um, with that, our humanity just brings afflictions, right? So I think it's only fair to present an honest, clear picture of, you know, the state of our health at some point. But I think it's completely, completely individualized, um, for each and every one of us and each and every, you know, dating or relationship situation that we're in. Just, I guess honesty is the best policies, is what I would say about that. I hope that this podcast has been helpful for you all as you are navigating difficult conversations with the people that you are dating, especially after divorce, deciding to come clean. You know, I don't think it is ever easy, but in a lot of instances it's probably the right thing to do.<laugh>, thanks so much for listening to episode 59, deciding to come clean. I really appreciate you listening to the podcast and for sharing it with others. That's how podcasts grow. And I love this little community that we are creating together of happy and optimistic singles. Most of us over 40 and, uh, live in life on our terms now. So if you're looking for another way to support the show other than sharing it, I would just ask that you give me a follow on Instagram, Stacey with an i ere weer, w I m E R. I share a lot of my life on there, but I would ask that you follow me because I want to get to know all of you, and I spend a good amount of time chatting in my dms. Get I love, love, love to get show ideas and feedback and hear about you guys because that's one of the ways I learn. So thanks for the follow, and until next time,